Neil
Sam, does this situation sound familiar? It’s a colleague’s birthday next week. A male boss says to a female employee – “You’re great at organising things – would you buy a card and get everyone in the office to sign it? Oh, and we’ll need to order a cake too – thanks, you’re amazing!”
Sam
Yes, I have seen that. A male boss asks a woman to do all the jobs that keep the office running but do nothing to advance her career or improve her chances of promotion – that’s when someone moves up into a higher, better paid position in a company.
Neil
Sadly, this happens a lot. In many workplaces around the world, it’s the men who are considered ‘born leaders’ and promoted up the corporate career ladder, while the women are given less important roles. Even today, many working women find themselves at a point in their career beyond which they cannot progress, an invisible barrier to succeed referred to as the glass ceiling.
Sam
But in this programme, we’ll be meeting the members of The No Club, a group of women saying ‘no’ to the glass ceiling by publicly questioning the kinds of jobs men and women are asked to do in the workplace. And, of course, we’ll be learning some useful new vocabulary as well.
Neil
But first, I have a question for you, Sam. Despite the glass ceiling, women do make it to the top jobs in many areas of work and business, even in the male-dominated world of politics. So, who was the first woman to become British Prime Minister?
Was it: a) Theresa May? b) Nicola Sturgeon? or c) Margaret Thatcher?
Sam
I know the answer to this one, Neil. It’s c) Margaret Thatcher.
Neil
OK. Well, we’ll find out later if you’re right. Professor Lise Vesterlund is one of the four academics who co-wrote The No Club, a book discussing how females disproportionately take on the unimportant, less visible tasks at work.
Sam
Professor Vesterlund calls these non-promotable tasks, jobs like taking notes, organising social events or chairing meetings – jobs that take time and effort but do little to increase company profits or to boost your career. Research shows that most of these tasks are done by women. Here’s Lise Vesterlund explaining more to BBC World Service programme, Business Daily
Prof Lise Vesterlund
We’ve been noticing gender differences in wages, in advancement, in negotiation. Burn-out for women is much greater than it is for men. Their dissatisfaction with their work is much greater. And we’ve been trying to sort of address all these objectives with lots of different methods and techniques, and what is interesting about the non-promotable work is that it, in a very structural sense, contributes to all of those differences.
Neil
Professor Vesterlund lists some workplace gender imbalances, including job dissatisfaction and burn-out – that’s tiredness and exhaustion caused by working too hard. Many of these issues are made worse by non-promotable tasks.
Sam
Natalie Quail agrees. Natalie started her successful dental cosmetics company, SmileTime, after winning a business competition on the TV show, Dragon’s Den. Here she tells BBC World Service’s Business Daily about her experience of being asked to take on non-promotable tasks in her work as a trainee solicitor.
Natalie Quail
As a trainee solicitor pretty much every task that you take on is a nonpromotable task. Note-taking is one of them, in meetings, when you, kind of, are told that you can’t really speak or say anything. I was tasked with being the team party organiser, so that was my role. It does definitely occur that the women in the team, the level of multitasking they’re doing just … far outstrips the men in a lot of cases, for example, you know, a lot of women in the team would also be juggling having kids at home, being a working mum.
Neil
Natalie found herself doing non-promotable tasks. She thinks many women in the workplace are expected to be good at multitasking - doing more than one thing at the same time.
Sam
For working mums, who are raising a family as well as developing careers at work, this involves some juggling - trying to manage your life when you are involved in many different activities which all demand your time.
Neil
In the forty years since the term ‘glass ceiling’ was invented, it seems not much has changed for working women. But there is some good news. The number of female managers and women working in jobs traditionally seen as male has increased dramatically, and those companies where getting promotion is based on ability not gender, have benefitted from talented, hard-working female leaders.
Sam
And speaking of female leaders, Neil, what was the answer to your question? You asked me who was the first female British Prime Minister, and I said Margaret Thatcher. Was I right?
Neil
You were right! Mrs Thatcher, nicknamed The Iron Lady, became Prime Minister in May 1979, the first woman to break the political glass ceiling in the UK - an invisible barrier to advancing in your career.
Sam
OK, let’s recap the other vocabulary we’ve learnt, starting with promotion - moving up into a higher, more important position in your company.
Neil
The term non-promotable tasks describes those unimportant jobs which help your organisation but do nothing to advance your career. They are often given to women.
Sam
If you have burn-out, you’re exhausted from working too hard.
Neil
Multitasking is the ability to do several things at the same time.
Sam
And finally, juggling involves managing many different activities which all demand your time. We’ve managed our time pretty well so far but now our six minutes are up! Bye for now!
Neil
Sam 이 상황 익숙해요? 다음주 한 동료의 생일입니다. 남자 상사가 여자 직원에게 말합니다 "뭔가 준비하는 거 잘하니까, 카드 사서 사무실에 모든 사람에게 서명받아 줄래요? 오. 그리고 케익 주문도 부탁해요. 고마워요
Sam, does this situation sound familiar? It’s a colleague’s birthday next week. A male boss says to a female employee – “You’re great at organising things – would you buy a card and get everyone in the office to sign it? Oh, and we’ll need to order a cake too – thanks, you’re amazing!”
Sam
네 본적 있어요. 남자 상사가 여성에게 사무실 운영 관련 모든 일을 시키면서도, 그 여성의 커리어 진작이나 승진 기회를 늘려주는 것은 안하는 것이요. - 회사 내에 누군가는 더 높고, 좋은 보수를 받은 직책으로 올라갈때 말이죠.
Yes, I have seen that. A male boss asks a woman to do all the jobs that keep the office running but do nothing to advance her career or improve her chances of promotion – that’s when someone moves up into a higher, better paid position in a company.
Neil
슬프게도, 이런일이 많이 일어나죠. 전세계의 많은 직장 환경에서, 남자들은 'Born leaders'로 여겨지며, 기업의 승진 계급을 올려주는 반면, 여성은 덜 중요한 직책이 주어지죠. 심지어 오늘날에 , 많은 여성 직장인들이 그들이 더이상 나아갈수 없는 경력의 지점에 있다는것을 발견하는데, 이것은 '유리 천장'이라 불리는 보이지 않는 장벽입니다.
Sadly, this happens a lot. In many workplaces around the world, it’s the men who are considered ‘born leaders’ and promoted up the corporate career ladder, while the women are given less important roles. Even today, many working women find themselves at a point in their career beyond which they cannot progress, an invisible barrier to succeed referred to as the glass ceiling.
Sam
그러나 이 프로그램에서는, 남성과 여성이 직장에서 어떤일을 해야하는지 공식적으로 질문함으로써 유리 천장에 대해 'no' 라고 얘기하는 여성 그룹인 No club의 멤버를 만나볼 것입니다. 그리고 물론 유용한 새로운 단어들도 배워볼 것입니다.
But in this programme, we’ll be meeting the members of The No Club, a group of women saying ‘no’ to the glass ceiling by publicly questioning the kinds of jobs men and women are asked to do in the workplace. And, of course, we’ll be learning some useful new vocabulary as well.
Neil
하지만 먼저, 질문이 있어요 Sam. 유리 천장에도 불구하고, 여성들은 많은 일과 사업 분야에서 top 직책을 이뤄냈어요. 심지어 남성 위주 세계인 정치계에서도요. 그래서, 처음으로 영국의 수상이 된 여성은 누구일까요?
But first, I have a question for you, Sam. Despite the glass ceiling, women do make it to the top jobs in many areas of work and business, even in the male-dominated world of politics. So, who was the first woman to become British Prime Minister?
Was it: a) Theresa May? b) Nicola Sturgeon? or c) Margaret Thatcher?
Sam
I know the answer to this one, Neil. It’s c) Margaret Thatcher.
Neil
좋아요 그럼. 맞는지는 나중에 알아보도록 하죠. Lise Vesterlund 교수님은 어떻게 여성이 부당하게 중요하지 않고 덜 보이는 업무를 맡고 있는지를 다룬 책 "The No Club"의 공동저자인 네명의 학자들 중 한분입니다.
OK. Well, we’ll find out later if you’re right. Professor Lise Vesterlund is one of the four academics who co-wrote The No Club, a book discussing how females disproportionately take on the unimportant, less visible tasks at work.
Vesterlund 교수님은 이러한 승진과 무관한 일, 즉, 노트하기, 이벤트 준비하기, 의장 회의같은 업무들- 시간과 노력을 필요로 하지만 회사 이익이나 커리어 개발에는 거의 도움이 되지 않는 업무라고 부릅니다. 연구는 이러한 일들중 대부분은 여성이 하고 있습니다. 여기 Vesterlund 교수님께서 BBC World Service program, Business Daily 에서 더 설명합니다.
Sam
Professor Vesterlund calls these non-promotable tasks, jobs like taking notes, organising social events or chairing meetings – jobs that take time and effort but do little to increase company profits or to boost your career. Research shows that most of these tasks are done by women. Here’s Lise Vesterlund explaining more to BBC World Service programme, Business Daily
Prof Lise Vesterlund
임금, 승진, 협의 등에서 성 차별을 알아채고 있습니다. 여성들의 Burn-out은 남성보다 훨씬 더 큽니다. 그들이 그들의 직업에 대한 불만족이 더 큽니다. 그리고 우리는 이 모든 목표들을 다양한 방법과 기술로 해결하려고 노력해왔습니다. 그리고 non-promotable 업무와 관련해서 흥미로운 것은 (구조적인 의미에서) 그것이 그런 모든 차이에 기여하고 있다는 점 입니다.
We’ve been noticing gender differences in wages, in advancement, in negotiation. Burn-out for women is much greater than it is for men. Their dissatisfaction with their work is much greater. And we’ve been trying to sort of address all these objectives with lots of different methods and techniques, and what is interesting about the non-promotable work is that it, in a very structural sense, contributes to all of those differences.
Neil
Vesterlund 교수는 업무 불만족과 burn-out을 포함하여 일부 직장 성 불균형을 리스트합니다. 그것은 너무 일을 열심히 함으로인해 피로함과 지침으로 인한 것입니다. 많은 이런 이슈들이 non-promotable task로 인해 더 악화됩니다.
Professor Vesterlund lists some workplace gender imbalances, including job dissatisfaction and burn-out – that’s tiredness and exhaustion caused by working too hard. Many of these issues are made worse by non-promotable tasks.
Sam
Natalie Quail agrees. Natalie started her successful dental cosmetics company, SmileTime, after winning a business competition on the TV show, Dragon’s Den. Here she tells BBC World Service’s Business Daily about her experience of being asked to take on non-promotable tasks in her work as a trainee solicitor.
Natalie Quail
As a trainee solicitor pretty much every task that you take on is a nonpromotable task. Note-taking is one of them, in meetings, when you, kind of, are told that you can’t really speak or say anything. I was tasked with being the team party organiser, so that was my role. It does definitely occur that the women in the team, the level of multitasking they’re doing just … far outstrips the men in a lot of cases, for example, you know, a lot of women in the team would also be juggling having kids at home, being a working mum.
Neil
Natalie found herself doing non-promotable tasks. She thinks many women in the workplace are expected to be good at multitasking - doing more than one thing at the same time.
Sam
For working mums, who are raising a family as well as developing careers at work, this involves some juggling - trying to manage your life when you are involved in many different activities which all demand your time.
Neil
In the forty years since the term ‘glass ceiling’ was invented, it seems not much has changed for working women. But there is some good news. The number of female managers and women working in jobs traditionally seen as male has increased dramatically, and those companies where getting promotion is based on ability not gender, have benefitted from talented, hard-working female leaders.
Sam
And speaking of female leaders, Neil, what was the answer to your question? You asked me who was the first female British Prime Minister, and I said Margaret Thatcher. Was I right?
Neil
You were right! Mrs Thatcher, nicknamed The Iron Lady, became Prime Minister in May 1979, the first woman to break the political glass ceiling in the UK - an invisible barrier to advancing in your career.
Sam
OK, let’s recap the other vocabulary we’ve learnt, starting with promotion - moving up into a higher, more important position in your company.
Neil
The term non-promotable tasks describes those unimportant jobs which help your organisation but do nothing to advance your career. They are often given to women.
Sam
If you have burn-out, you’re exhausted from working too hard.
Neil
Multitasking is the ability to do several things at the same time.
Sam
And finally, juggling involves managing many different activities which all demand your time. We’ve managed our time pretty well so far but now our six minutes are up! Bye for now!
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